Ronak Shah

November 18, 2020

In this session of The Personal Mastery Podcast, we speak with Ron Shah who has built his platform around health, wellness and fitness. Collagen is well known as the most abundant protein in your body and is scientifically proven that consuming collagen supplements has a variety of health benefits. Ron relays the importance of young adults needing to consume collagen in order to prevent unwanted ageing vs consuming it after you see symptoms of ageing. His product Obvi is allowing easy accessibility to millenials and beyond. Differing from a protein powder, it is directly tied to improving the quality of hair, skin, nails and joints. Ron encourages entrepreneurs to create a strong community to build an experience and where consumers can feel connected.

Ron Shah is the CEO and Co-Founder of Obvi, a collagen protein supplement brand focused on helping young people feel and look good as they grow older. He has an outstanding background in accounting and performance marketing where he’s been able to take that expertise into Obvi and skyrocket the business.

You can learn more about Ronak below:
Website: myobvi.com
Youtube: Obvi
LinkedIn: Ronak Shah
Facebook: Obvi Community



Arri Bagah: You're listening to the Personal Mastery podcast with Arri Bagah, interviewing CEOs and executives who are performing at the highest level in their industry, working purposefully towards vision, in alignment with the values and the state of constant learning about the self. Welcome to another episode of the Personal Mastery podcast and today's episode, we have Ronak Shah, who is the CEO and co-founder of Obvi. Obvi is a collagen protein supplement brand focused on helping young people feel and look better as they grow older. He has an outstanding background in accounting and performance marketing, and he's been able to take that expertise into Obvi and skyrocket the business. You're going to dive right into how he started the brand, as well as community building, performance marketing and most importantly, conversion rate optimization. So without further ado, here's Ron. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron Shah: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Arri Bagah: Also, where are you calling from, by the way

Ron Shah: Our offices are based in Carney, New Jersey.

Arri Bagah: New Jersey. Yeah. How are things in New Jersey? I know New York has been pretty interesting over the past few months.

Ron Shah: Yeah, I think we we had our tough, tough days then we had trouble following when we kind of stayed out of the mud. And then and now we're seeing some of that again. Every day is like you're going based off a number, right? If it's not.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, I was yeah, I was in New York for a little while, and then I decided to flee in New York after I realized things were getting a lot worse. This was back in like April that I was laid off to move back to L.A.. Yeah, I was in New York because we had an office in New York. So, yeah, I ended up making my way back here.

Ron Shah: Oh, and the wildfire started.

Arri Bagah: So tell me a little bit by yourself. Quick background. Who's Ron?

Ron Shah: Sure, so currently I am the CEO, co-founder of Obvi. Formerly, I was a accounting major out of Pace University in New York, went on to work in the Big Four, worked at Deloitte, found my path into startups and working more of an entrepreneurial role. When I was actually hired as a controller at one of the older companies I used to work for. called Shreds. Shreds is an interesting concept because we actually incubated a few different brands there. I was working primarily in finance and accounting, but it was a it was a startup company. So we used to work two shifts, used to work nine to five, come, go home, shower, come back at eight pm, work till about three a week. On my night shift, I learned a lot about marketing different different things around then and that's around 2013, 2014, the start of Instagram, Facebook, advertising, stuff like that, really got involved in marketing. And from there we helped build really some really cool brands there. Shreds, FlavorGods, all direct to consumer brands. From there I left and with two other partners started a media marketing agency goes to the media marketing agency based off performance marketing. And from there we did that for about five years and now took everything we learned over these five years and applied it and starting our own brand.

Arri Bagah: And so, yeah, you must have your business running smoothly on the accounting side, because a lot of DTC founders are always like, that's something that people always struggle with. It's like, oh, how do I make sure all the numbers are right, especially when it comes to customer acquisition? So that probably really serves you well.

Ron Shah: Yeah, hundred percent, I think a lot of people look at it at the end of the month and the quarter end of the year, we're kind of looking at it before we even get something started. We're looking at the numbers and the numbers have to make sense. And anything we do.

Arri Bagah: Now when it comes to the brand Obvi hopefully I'm pronouncing it right. Correct of the. Yeah, yeah, so what was the idea behind going specifically into the collagen space? Is this something that you were personally interested in or was it just like a market opportunity that you saw?

Ron Shah: That's a good question. So we were always in the health nutritional space, right? Working for brands or building brands in the protein category, health and wellness and fitness. The one thing about that protein category, like where you see your way, protein, pre workout, stuff like that, it's getting very saturated. There's only so many types of pre workouts you can make, only so many types of proteins you can consume. But within that category, there is a little bit of an overlap in the industry called Neutra Cosmetics. Nutra Cosmetics is actually getting cosmetic benefits through nutrition and the leader in that industry is collagen. And so we started looking into collagen and we attached and looked at the science behind it besides me. And collagen says that you should be taking collagen early on in your life. But the stigma behind collagen has been, oh, it's something you take when you're older to slow down or aging this and that. So we said, how can we make collagen fun? And that's the market opportunity, because people need to take it when they're younger. But all the like their position for older people for for not a fun marketplace and collagen is has a stigma of just being a product. You just throw in some other protein or you just throw it in and forget about it, change the stick, object to make it accessible to millennials and beyond.

Arri Bagah: That makes a lot of sense, especially like even for me thinking about it when I first saw, like oh Collagen and I was like, OK, it's probably for people who have who are starting to see wrinkles on our faces and they want to start like using the product to look at a lot younger. So and I'm assuming probably like most people think like that because that's how it's been marketed. So how do you even, like, convince someone that's young to start even thinking about buying this product?

Ron Shah: Yeah, I think so. I think there's two or two parts to it is one is educating them. The science behind it is you lose your body stops naturally producing collagen, which is basically the Elmer's glue that holds your skin together and your nails and joints you lose your body starts producing that glue by the time you're in your mid twenties. After that, your body naturally depletes one percent of college and four years. Right. Well, that's why by the time you're 50 or 60, you see the wrinkles, the joints in that. So when you break it down to this easier format of understanding, I'm sure even let's say you hearing that you're like, oh, shoot, maybe I maybe I need to look into collagen. Right. Because I don't instead of me being a reactive measure, let me be a preventative measure and say I don't want to see the wrinkles and then do something I don't want. Right. So that we're training people to think like that, educating them on that. And the second part is you have to make it fun. I think the brand has to be exciting. I think the flavors we made it very fun, very, very flavorful. We basically said collagen doesn't have to be boring. So I think those are two main methodologies that we went after them.

Arri Bagah: And now for your target audience, look at your website is very pink. Is there like a specific reason why that is with the colors I use? Is it to, like, really target like a specific demographic?

Ron Shah: Yeah, it's a good question. Um, collagen is unisex and everyone should be taking and everyone can take it. But I think one of the things we've learned over the years of building brands or working with brands is like a demographic and stick with it right. When you try to go too wide, no one feels personalized. When you go to specific some a lot of people get left out. So we kind of said, you know, you take the genders, male, female. For the males that want to try our brand, we always say real men drink big, but our brand is catered towards that female demo to let them know, hey, it's a fun brand for you. You can feel comfortable with this brand.

Arri Bagah: So how do you like tie like the idea of it being a supplement while also helping with, like, aging because it is protein, right? I'm assuming a lot of people take it for, like, working out.

Ron Shah: So we we actually saw with collagen because it is a protein, but it is not a high dose of protein, the main we are collagen is for the source of collagen, which that directly is tied to hair, skin, nails and joints, improving not so much the performance improving in the gym or your workout, stuff like that. We have different products, like our best selling product is actually our polygenic burn that we created, something like that people take to lose weight to get healthier. But our collagen is mainly for other purposes of hair, skin, nails and, you know

Arri Bagah: Now getting more into launching the brand. What are the different steps that you take to get this to market after you figure out your products? Because a lot of people assume that it is easy to launch direct to consumer brands, but there are different obviously a lot of different things that go into it. What would you say? Like we're like the top three most important thing that you have to get right to successfully launched the brand.

Ron Shah: Now, that's a good question. I think once you've figured out your product and and the demo that's desired, I think we were lucky to have a good background of paid ads. Facebook ads, Snapchat, this and that. Defining your advertising tactics and how you're going to drive that traffic is extremely important, right? I think the second piece is making your website where people are landing the landing page of your website, making it super clear, telling people what the problem is, why you solve it and how you can get the solution. Building off of that is extremely crucial. And then I think the third biggest thing is the experience flow. Right? If you're capturing people's email, are you just giving them a discount code or are you taking them down your company's journey if you're capturing people's phone numbers? Are you just sending them a sale text message or you them that oh, our college and you can eat, drink, be right. We also give a free, hard copy recipe book with every order. We also do a lot in our community. We have the largest Facebook community. We have the second largest Facebook community for college members on Facebook. We take a lot of people to go there and say, hey, even if you don't want to be a customer, come join our community and see what others are saying. So I think working on the experience, building that out before you just say, oh, I'm just trying to get sales.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, a little more deeper into the community. Is this something that you started before launching the brand or is this something that you're building as a brand grows and as you get more customers?

Ron Shah: Yes. So we started the community effectively pretty much right around the time we started the brand, but we really started to build our experience around it as we started to send more people there. And we saw that there was a lot more engagement, a lot more traffic that people are seeing, that people are willing to talk to others. And so the more we saw that the conversations were leading to people feeling more comfortable, the more traffic we sent there. As that kept building, we pivoted to say, all right, let's build things around our community. So now any time we do a launch, the first people who get to even hear about it is our community. Any time we talk about something, the first people that hear about is our community, not even Instagram, not even Facebook. So I think I think it's hard to say we started at the same moment, but we definitely catered into it.

Arri Bagah: The reason why I asked is also because people are always wondering about building a Facebook community, but especially in the health space, too. I think people well, in general, in any space, people generally have questions, but specifically in the health space, people wonder, like, what supplements are you taking? What's working for you? ET. So I can see that being like a great environment for people to see. OK, like how are you taking your product, what has worked for you, etc..

Ron Shah: Right. Right. And I think I think fostering open conversation is important and our community is not 100 percent only about Obvi. Right. Sometimes it's about someone saying, hey, I had a rough day today. This is how I'm feeling. Sometimes it's people saying, hey, I take these other products along with Obvi and it may be our competitors. And we're saying, OK, we'll help others help each other.

Arri Bagah: So that's what I really like about this, because a lot of brands wonder, like, how do you even build like a large Facebook community? But it's like, OK, like they create a group and then they just promote, like link after link of their products, but they're not really providing any value to the people in a group. So yeah. Is it like how do you even like manage that content or what type of content or you providing on top to keep people engaged.

Ron Shah: Yeah. Another good question. So we actually do not allow any links, any outside referrals. We don't even try to sell Obvi in there. We keep it purely about a sustainable thing and what people are doing in their daily lifestyle to implement Obvi or other things. The best part about the community is we've built a really good team around it. We have a team of really good admins that moderate the group. Then under them they have a group of moderators that are moderating the comments, making sure nothing is being abusive or negative. But when people do have problems, then they say, hey, my shipment didn't get there or hey, I tried this. It's too sweet for me. They're also there to help. And so I think building you have to have a good team around it. But I think if you have a good team and you foster the idea, you can talk about anything you want here as long as it's positive. I think people feel.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, and I was recently talking to one of our customer support heads here at Conversmart and what he said at the end of the day, people just want to be heard. So being able to provide that environment for people to, like, ask questions or just talk to other people who are on the same journey most of the time, like someone being able to, like, feel that at least you care or provided that environment for them to be listened to goes a long way. And that's something that's definitely going to get them to come back to make another purchase. So you have something as easy as like replying to someone's question in the group. That person might really feel very close and closer to your brand. So that's a this is of things that always go a long way, especially in like Facebook groups. So that's amazing to hear that you guys are doing that.

Ron Shah: No, thank you. Yeah, that's it's a big part of our day to day routine. It's a big part of something we monitor for hopefully. So it's definitely a lot of work too.

Arri Bagah: Getting more into, like the Facebook ads side. You said you guys do Facebook ads really well. You come from a performance background. Can you talk about, like, the formula that really works for Facebook ads? Because every brand is always trying to figure it out. You have like a thousand gurus out there who have a different approach. I want to hear from someone who has actually done it for a brand that's actually working. So can you talk about your strategy when it comes to ads?

Ron Shah: Yeah, and I think I think the biggest part of our strategy, per se, is more around who we're targeting has been really defined. Right. So we're going after the females. We're going after a certain demo. But I think that the biggest part of the formula is testing. Right? A lot of people feel like, oh, if I if I have this one piece of content and I think this really clever caption and send it out there, it's going to work. And when it doesn't, there's a lot of attachment. There's a lot of people that feel a certain way that, oh, this didn't work. Facebook, that's not for me. I think not being attached to any piece of content, not being attached and even even any consistent performance, because we've all seen it right. We're seven days in a row. You'll do great on the eighth day. All of a sudden it's gone. Right, knowing that nothing is permanent, excepting that nothing permanent and accepting that whatever your idea may be, maybe a complete failure. If you take that mindset, you're going to be able to kind of swim around this Facebook pool. They call write a lot. And I think that's the best thing we do. I mean, you go into and look into our ads and stuff. We're testing tons of different pieces of content, tons of different caption styles and testing tons of different audiences. And just because one works doesn't mean you give up on the testing. We're constantly taking our entire day's budget and bringing it up into, hey, if this is working cool, I'm not going to put all my eggs into that. We're still going to keep testing to find more winners. And I think that's that concept has stuck with us from day one. And that's really the formula is don't don't stop trying just because something didn't work. Don't stop trying because you had a month of spending fifteen hundred dollars and it didn't bring you three thousand dollars in sales. There's a way to figure it out. There are people who are able to sell with terrible content. There are people with unbelievable content. So the spectrum is so large. And if you can recognize that, I think you can get more comfortable.

Arri Bagah: And I think we share the same approach here. Every single time I look at the people who are actually successful ads is just a bunch of text testing. Like I don't think like any media buyer really knows which ad is going to perform at the end. They have a pretty good idea of what your strategy is, but you don't know what piece of content matched with a specific caption or description is going to work. So it's about putting in as many variables as possible and letting the algorithm work and then figuring out, OK, this ad worked. Maybe then I take that ad or the content and then pair it with another headline and another description and that I've seen work really, really well and is just about testing as much as possible. So you're definitely right on that. A thing like even when I was running ads, that was like the biggest thing that I learned that you just got to keep texting. You can't just like, run like two ads, but spend like two thousand dollars and then decide, oh, maybe ads don't work. It doesn't work like that. So recently there has been obviously close election time and politicians, they're cranking as much as possible into the Facebook ad algorithm. I heard a lot of people talk about it, but is it affecting you guys?

Ron Shah: Yeah, of course. I mean, they've got Q4 in general is affecting everyone. The big media companies are coming and spending all their money before the year ends. The politicians are spending their money once every four years. So you see it back in twenty-sixteen, too. I think it's it's part of it is like you change your approach of what you're trying to get out of advertising depending on the seasonality. Right. When we go into Q1, which is New Year, New Me concept. Right. Our goal is going to be a quiet, quiet, quiet. Right. Right now our goal is prep for Black Friday acqui. Or two, but be mindful that we are if we're going to be spending at a smaller return on Atzmon, we probably want to save up for November, but keep relevant in October. Right. You spend more on marketing, you spend more on it on the different approaches. So I think if you look at your year and break it out by the different quarters, you can find your different. Summer before quarantine or covid summer used to be very slow for or right. Everyone's out and not people are shopping. But you look back at what just happened. Summer was crazy good, right? So I think you take these three months at a time and you set your expectation that way. You're also not reaching for something that's so ridiculous either.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, we're going to talk about Q4 in a minute. But I wanted to ask you about Snapchat. What exactly are you guys doing on Snapchat and what have you found to be working?

Ron Shah: That's a good question. So my partner, he's he's actually at the media buying group, and he's his approach is kind of similar to let's get out there in as many places we can. Right. Almost as in like, you know, what you do with the billboard. Just get impressions. Just get the people to come and see. So we do with a lot of Snapchat is we do a lot of remarketing. We do a lot of hey, you may have seen this on Facebook. You may have came to our website. Here it is again, right. Browsing Intertrade story. So you just kind of stays on your mind. We're not even really looking for purchase or even sometimes not even looking for people to click on it. But, hey, as long as you looked at it, maybe tomorrow or maybe payday, you'll come back and circle back.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, a thing like brand marketing always like I know a lot of performance marketers like to look down brand marketing, but I don't know. For me that has always worked on me. Sometimes I look at an ad of like something that I might be interested in. And then every time, like when I'm like ready to buy it or even like when I'm thinking about it, like that brand that I watch on, like social media always comes to mind first and I always end up buying it. And it's so crazy that, like, although they're not going to be able to know, like, OK, like this person bought because like they saw this ad and it was just like an impression. But it works. I don't know if you feel the same way, but.

Ron Shah: It really does. I think I think exactly what you explain is, is that you threw a concept, right, where people don't necessarily click and buy all the time, but they may have viewed something. And seven days later, you don't know what's going on each person's life. But whenever that time comes around, as long as you keep them engaged and stay relevant, then hopefully come back.

Arri Bagah: Now, let's say you got your traffic Facebook ads, right? And you want to send someone to your website. I'm looking at your product page right now. It's a very long product page and has a lot of and a lot of information on it. Can you talk about the idea around these long landing pages of a bunch of information on them and how that's been working for you guys?

Ron Shah: So we've we've heard the theories of keep it short, keep it simple, keep it super simple, give people easy ways to check out. I think I think what we're trying to do with our product, though, is, is retain that customer. So we rather not keep it super simple, give people a ton of information. So that when they get that product, they feel confident in finding a result, right. Tension is right around 30 to 40 percent each month. And I think we can credit a lot of it to us being overly informative, even our community, it's overly informative. Even the recipe book we send with every single order, it's overly informative so that you when you have a question as a consumer, you can almost probably think back to a place that you can find an answer. And then at the very end, on top of that, I think the cherry on top for us is we offer a 60 day money back, no questions asked, guarantee. If you don't love it, send it back empty. That guarantee puts the cherry on top saying, hey, here's all this information, trust the product, it'll work. This is wild work. If you don't like it, though, after 60 days, send it back. And I think what this does for us, it really instills confidence in our consumer. It really makes them want to come back and keep trying other products. And I don't think you'll find a more educated consumer base than ours because they can all talk about our products, the T that's why they can help each other in the community.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, we like that approach, too, because like sometimes like you learn about a product, whether you buy or not, if it's not fit for you, sometimes like your friends might like mention a problem that they might be facing and you end up suggesting that product because you read so well on how that product could help you. But same with brand marketing sometimes. Like, I would see an ad on my not buy the product, but then I hear one of my friends talk about it and I end up like sending him the link to this ad that I've seen before, like I've done. I don't even remember how many times I've done that, but that's another way that it works. And like going back to your landing page, like, I don't think people realize, like how long Amazon lending product landing pages are there, just like so much content on it. And every single time I'm on the site, it's like I really just like halfway home, OK? I'm and convinced me that I'm just adding to cook know.

Ron Shah: And I think and I think that's why we still have a lot of call to action to cut your journey. We still say, hey, by now, maybe you're halfway through by now. But for those who are not convinced, we even go so far as putting in the effort cuz all the way to the bottom so that if you went through this entire page and you're still not convinced here, all the frequently asked questions as well on each page.

Arri Bagah: And I think it also tells the consumer how knowledgeable the brand is about the topic because like those like super short landing pages that don't provide enough information, you don't get like that full confidence from the customer to to be able to decide because they don't have all the information and then they have to leave the site and look for the information from somewhere else.

Ron Shah: Yeah, not one hundred percent.

Arri Bagah: No, I do see that you guys are also doing email marketing as well as text, text is something that has been getting a lot more popular over the past year and a half or so, specifically in the ecommerce space. Can you talk about how you guys are using these two channels to convert more customers?

Ron Shah: I think email is the traditional right. You got to do it. You've got to set up abandoned cart. You've got to do the welcome flow. And I think we've done it well with putting our brand twist to it. Every email is very engaging. Every email is also AB tested with different metrics. We have a ton of different flows. We have about thirty-one different flows built out in terms of depending on what behavior this incoming email is, it has done so. Someone has bought twice. They're getting a whole different flow versus someone who's never bought someone who's not and someone who's bought but hasn't bought in three months. They're getting a whole different flow versus someone who entered their email for the first time. They're getting like there's a lot of different journeys. We've figured out. What I think the most promising for us, though, is text. We use text a lot and it's not the problem, but it is an expensive channel, especially if you're doing MMW right with the photos and stuff, which we like to do. But every time we've sent text, it is extremely, extremely profitable. It's extremely, almost expected revenue generated. When we sent out a recipe, we know we're going to get X amount. We know we're going to get this from a launch via text. Text has, I think in many months for us, outdone. So but I think, again, it's because more people sign up for a product launch for us. They're putting their phone numbers, we're training people, hey, text is the quickest way you can get our products and our products sell out pretty often. So our mindset is a little bit more consumer driven to journey of get it quick and text is that click open the thing. So but we we absolutely love text.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, I think that's what I've seen, too, especially here at Conversmart working with a lot of direct to consumer brand and running techs for many, many brands. That's kind of like the same story that I hear, that especially if you have products that go out of stock, like your consumers want to get those text notifications so that when the product is back, they're the first ones to know. And recently with the we did this like state of DTC text marketing report. And then we did find that in the past year, like. Seventy-five percent of consumers signed up for a text marketing, which we weren't really surprised. What was really surprising was that consumers are signing up at checkout, like over 60 percent said that they signed up at checkout, which is really important because if the majority of people are dropping off at checkout, then you should have a way for those customers to sign up at checkout so that you can send them updates, especially during the holiday season when you see an increase in your abandoned carts and abandoned checkout. So that's something that we've seen in this report that I think a lot of money should then like start doing it, give people the ability to sign up for those notifications through text.

Ron Shah: But right now, I think that's you know, we we're constantly talking about where else can we connect, collect phone numbers? Where else can we collect this and do it on the welcome pop? You're on the the cart level. Check out this not because it's you know, it's extremely encouraging to see the performance that X does. And so you almost want to shift more and more towards gaining more people to sign up to that.

Arri Bagah: Well, let me ask you this, and this is an interesting question for the brands that like are still like because like we all know, the ROI is there for a text, but for the brands that are still a little bit on the fence because of the cost, although they know they're going to generate revenue, but the cost that the higher costs of text still doesn't make them feel right. What would you say to those brands?

Ron Shah: Yeah, I would what I would say is. If you start to train your customer base or your subscriber base, that texting, texting you is OK. We want to text you. We we want to give you special deals. We want to we want to engage with you. Your subscriber base will almost look forward to it. And you will see the you will be one hundred percent. I mean, we see the eye 10 to 15 X on spend. And so even if you fall at five, six X for X, I can't imagine a way where if you properly are collecting phone numbers with someone saying, hey, yeah, you can message me, I don't see how that subscriber base cannot be profitable for a brand. I would I would just say maybe you may not see it on your first message or the second message, but when you train that subscriber base like we text you when it's important, make sure you act. I think subscriber base will react and you'll see it pay off ten times over.

Arri Bagah: Yet 100 percent agree with that. Not getting more into Q4 stuff. Obviously, Shopify announced a few months back that they since I think March, they've been seeing Black Friday like traffic every single day and it's only been going up. So I'm expecting this Black Friday season to be very profitable for a lot of e-commerce friends. At least the traffic should double for this holiday season. So what are some of the things that you're doing to prepare for Black Friday, Cyber Monday? And what sort of research results are you expecting to see?

Ron Shah: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that we realize and recognize is, again, it is not many people are going to go to stores and malls. Of course, we've seen a lot of shift Black Friday, Cyber Monday to online shopping. But this year I feel we're going to hit a record, not because commerce is doing something right, but it's because they're doing retail. Can't do much. With that being said, I think you have to prepare for the onslaught of people that are going to want to just shop and almost at the convenience of not going in a store and actually just transacting online, I think. It's going we're going to get a whole new pool of buyers that we're maybe not used to doing this, not used to shopping online. So we're preparing for those people by making our site experience, our user experience. Very simple, very incentive driven. We are heavily focusing on AOB over anything else. We want people to stock up and save concept. Right. Rather than having more volume of orders because I think we can hit our goal quicker then. And I think the other thing we're really preparing for is. Really honing in on our customer base that we've built up and seeing how we can have them take advantage of our largest sale, our best offer, so many new items and really giving it our all to them and saying, hey, this is what we're giving you as our best foot forward.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, one thing I want to touch on is making the site simple. So obviously there's going to be a large range of consumers who have never shopped online before coming online. So making that experience, shopping experience as simple as possible can go a long way. I can tell you how many times, like we get, like, customers texting back, like, hey, like, how do I order this product? And it might be like you might think it's a crazy question, but how many of those customers are out there asking those questions because of how complicated the checkout process could be? So that's something that we've definitely seen. And the second part is Alvey and I recently tweeted about this like, hey, look, people don't realize how important AOF is. Like, you can hit your target a lot faster if you double your AOF instead of wanting to increase your conversion rate. So even like for us, some of the campaigns that we've seen like last year do really well is bundling products, getting people to stock up and then saving like a much larger discount. That's something that I've seen worked really, really well. And you will be surprised, like you might say, oh, who's going to buy like five of the same product? That's what we asked last year or two. And surprisingly, like people would buy them just because the saving is so big.

Ron Shah: Exactly. No, we we've we've always I mean, even if you go to our website, we we Ovando right away, even our biggest promo on our main banner is bundled and say, right, bundling is something, again, we've trained our consumers to do. I think this Black Friday, we've taken that bundle concept and amplified it even bigger. So I think that's what's going to be the most exciting is if we can hit our AOB, who cares how many orders you get, right? If your goal is that so much quicker and once you hit your goal, it's more smooth sailing from there.

Arri Bagah: Yeah. You talk about something that I want to ask you personally, actually, you talk about training the consumer. You say that a few times, like how do you make sure, like, the consumer ends up like going the right route that you want them to take? Is it like because like sometimes like you might do something and then you might get like a response that you didn't expect. So how do you like, actually properly train the consumer to do the things that you want them to do?

Ron Shah: That's a good question, I think. I think the biggest way is reinforcement and also building your business model around your concept of wanting to do that. Right. One of the cool things we do at Ivy is we do try to align ourselves to I don't know if you're familiar with Supreme or like Nike or Jordan. They do drops or they do limited edition stuff. Right. Get it now or it's gone forever. You started doing that back in June with our first year birthday. It was our one year birthday. So we dropped a birthday cupcake flavor for college and we sold out in two weeks and there was a petition by our customer base to bring back that flavor. And it was such a big hype. So then we did it again. We did it with pumpkin spice. We're about to do it with another flavor in December and we have our next 15 flavors until twenty twenty to figure it out and ready to go. What this tells, what this what this is doing to our consumer base is saying, hey, when we release something, whether or not we tell you it's a limited edition, you better go and get it right if you want it, because you don't know how long it's going to be there. And we have no idea if it's coming back ever. So we're training are we're training the collectors mindset into our consumer base in something as simple as college. Right. And I think you do that. And by constantly making your business model revolve around our business model is shaping around training our mind, our consumers to say, hey, when we drop it, get it. Good question you ask, though, is, is what if someone is not receptive to it? How do you get them back into the mode? And I think this is where you use your sales funnel. Right, to to bring them down different journeys. Right. Whether on email, you you take them down some sceptered right. Where, hey, if they're really not going to buy it, let's let's take it now versus if someone has bought once but hasn't bought again, take them down different journeys of why maybe hit on an emotion, show them some user generated content, show them that, show them this. So we have several touch points that we tried to provide them. And you hope to strike one pattern of, oh, I can connect to this. So let me dive back into this. And I think we we can cater all of that into, like a big globe around.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, definitely appreciate you sharing that. I think that really provides marketers how to get their customers to get accustomed to their marketing strategies, because sometimes it can be pretty scary to try new things because you really don't know how it's going to go. So thanks for sharing that. Now, we're getting more into the personal stuff. You mentioned earlier that you used to work two full shifts in one day. I'm assuming you're probably not doing that anymore. Are there like any routines or things that you're doing that are helping you run this company and achieve success?

Ron Shah: Yeah, I think I think the biggest the biggest routine. I think it's something small for me, but something I'm just constantly done is I rewrite my to do list every day, whether a lot of people, I think and writing down things we've actually over the course of year moved so much stuff digitally. Right. Like making a pass list on your phone or using to do lists or using this app. I think one rejean that has just changed a lot of things for me is is is pen and paper and and rehashing that pen and paper and saying, all right, well, I did this, but I didn't get to this entire list carried over the next day and remind yourself to do it again. Right. I think that's a simple tactic that we need to keep reinforcing in each other, because as much as we are on our phones, it's very easy to say, hey, I'm not going to open that To-Do list right now. I just don't want you know, it's I'm doing a podcast or sits in front of me or I'm in a massive meeting. So that that, I think, is one of the biggest things to keep your mind engaged on what needs to get done. And I think the second biggest routine is just starting starting my mornings on LinkedIn, I, I have my alarm on my phone, actually says it at seven a.m. and it's connected with twenty new people on LinkedIn. OK, so before I even open any other app, I open LinkedIn when I wake up and I will connect with twenty people that are just completely new, maybe in. Maybe an accounting doesn't matter, and I am just maybe consuming some material, this and that, and that routine has taken me away from looking at, let's say, just social media first or just some random news about politics or this or whatever the media is feeding us down to actually user generated content from me. And I think that's trained my mind to say, OK, well, the world's going to be OK because people are figuring it out.

Arri Bagah: Yeah. Did I 100 percent agree with that? Like, the biggest thing that I've first of all, I agree with the paper, paper and pen thing because I do that every day. The second thing is that not checking out newsletters, I think that's like every single day there's a new newsletter out. There's always going to be the media talking about what they've been talking about for the past, however many years. It's always going to be there. And the moment like you wake up and you get into that, it's so hard to get back out of it. So you end up like clicking in this article that takes you to another one. Next thing you know, like, yeah, your day is gone. So, yeah, same with social media. I try to, like, block out like news feeds and like because like when you when you read one, like you end up reading as many as you can, you just end up scrolling. So I try not to get in the habit of just like scrolling on social media in the morning too.

Ron Shah: Yeah. No that's great. It helps a lot.

Arri Bagah: Yeah. Well thanks for being on a show. How can people found you and how can people find out more about Obvi.

Ron Shah: Sure. So find me on LinkedIn. I'm always on there. You can look up my name or you can look up the CEO of Obvi and obviously I mean our website, myobvi.com, myobvi.com is a great place to get started. But also, if you want to read about our reviews or read about some videos, we've done a ton of different videos on YouTube and on or just Google hockey and you see a bunch of reviews and some different articles that have been more presented from the consumer perspective. And the biggest thing I'll say is above all of this is coming to our community, just type in our community on Facebook and, you know, take a scroll on it. I think you'll be impressed.

Arri Bagah: Yeah, definitely. Those links and the description. Now, if you're listening on iTunes or Spotify, there is one more question that I'm going to ask Ron here and that's only going to be on YouTube? Thanks for checking out this episode of the Personal mastery podcast. If you're listening on iTunes or Spotify, please follow this podcast and give us a five star review. And as always, thanks again for listening to another episode of the Personal Machree podcast.